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Transbay Transit Center going off track

By: Katie Worth
Examiner Staff Writer
November 12, 2008

Pricey proposal: It would cost $2 billion to extend Caltrain to the planned Transbay Transit Center. (Courtesy graphic)

SAN FRANCISCO — Statewide bullet trains have been presented by transit officials as the silver bullet The City needs to finally bring rail transit downtown, but some are questioning whether a necessary extension should receive financial help from bonds for high-speed rail approved by voters Nov. 4.

Proposition 1A, passed in last week’s election, authorized $9.95 billion in bond money for a high speed-rail line that would take passengers from Los Angeles to San Francisco in a mere 2½ hours. In anticipation of the project, the first phase of the new Transbay Transit Center is being built with the assumption that a major rail corridor will connect to the new terminal.

However, that would necessitate a $2 billion, 1.3-mile extension of Caltrain’s tracks from their current terminus at Fourth and King streets in Mission Bay to downtown’s Transbay Transit Center at First and Mission streets, as well as a “train box” — a massive space underneath the bus terminal big enough to hold six rail platforms and tracks — that could later be tunneled into and developed into a station for Caltrain and high-speed trains.

Transbay Joint Powers Authority spokesman Adam Alberti said the authority began lobbying for funds from the high-speed rail bond in a letter issued last month.

But at least one authority has eschewed the possibility that high-speed rail will pay for the extension.

“We do not need First and Mission. I am satisfied with Fourth and Townsend,” said Judge Quentin Kopp, chairman of the High Speed Rail Authority. “We are not going to pay an extra billion-plus dollars to take the high-speed rail an extra 1.4 miles.”

The extension will have to be resolved — and funded — by The City and Caltrain, he said.

But spokeswoman Christine Dunn said Caltrain has not considered devoting any funds to the project, and it would have to be funded by The City and the Transbay project.

Jerry Hill, a member of Transbay’s board of directors and state Assembly member-elect, said that though Transbay hopes to secure some funding for the extension from the high-speed rail, they are not seeing the project as a “cash cow,” and the success of neither high-speed rail nor the Transbay Transit Center depends on the extension.

Rod Diridon, Kopp’s colleague on the High Speed Rail Authority, said it would be a shame if high-speed rail did not reach downtown.

kworth@sfexaminer.com

Future rail projects

Caltrain wants to link to the planned Transbay Transit Center.

$9.95 billion Bond funding for high-speed rail approved by voters Nov. 4

1.3 miles Proposed underground downtown extension of Caltrain commuter rail line

6 Trains and platforms to be accommodated by proposed train station under the new Transbay Transit Center

$2 billion Unfunded cost to extend the Caltrain commuter rail line from Fourth and King streets to the new Transbay Transit Center

Sources: Transbay Joint Powers Authority, Caltrain, California High Speed Rail Authority, BayRail Alliance



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Reader Comments

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Mike Jones

Nov 12, 2008

Extending Caltrain to the transbay/financial district is fine; it is a commuter railway. However, High Speed Rail is an inter-city service, much of its clientel will be off peak travelers. The existing Caltrain site at 4th & King provides much more room and scope for a "Grand Central station" for San Francisco- especially when the metro is extended to there. The 4th and King site also has much more potential for hotels and night life. The transbay area is a desert at night and weekends.

 

Jamie

Nov 12, 2008

I was under the impression that the TJPA was hoping to get a few hundred million from the high speed rail bond issue - not the full budget to extend caltrain tracks to the new Transbay Transit Center. It would be enormously short-sighted of the High-Speed Rail Authority to not play with the other children, so-to-speak, and to get the high speed rail terminus connecting to a BART station in some convenient manner. Do they seriously think their ridership won't suffer if folks have to experience MUNI between the high speed rail and then hopping on BART to get to ther final east bay destination? Puhleez.... Just because you'll be dead by the time this is built, don't short change the future ... the Rincon Hill neighborhood will add thousands of residents and businesses - it will not be anything like it is today. Bring high speed rail to 1st and Mission!

 

brian

Nov 12, 2008

by that time, the central subway should be completed, giving riders easy access to downtown via several muni rail lines & numerous buses. However, it would most likely reduce travel times if the transbay terminal was directly connected or if the hsr stopped short of downtown. perhaps the central subway could be designed to accommodate HSR & caltrain too?

 

David

Nov 12, 2008

To not extend HSR to the Transbay Terminal would be a huge detriment to the convenience and usability of the system. 4th & King is nowhere near most transit access--not just regional access to the BART system and AC Transit and Golden Gate Transit, but also within the City itself. With all due respect, Mr. Kopp, simply ending HSR at 4th & King won't do a thing to help residents of the Bay Area.

 

Anon

Nov 12, 2008

But aren't the optimistic ridership projections for HSR based on connections to local transit systems? Were those numbers based on connection to BART or MUNI? Will HSR travelers to the East Bay really be willing to get off HSR, get on a muni bus or train, pay a fare, get off, and then pay another fare for BART? And without Caltrain, isn't a transbay terminal a prettied-up version of what exists today? Yet another example of Bay Area Transit schemes brought to you by people who don't use it.

 

Thomas Rohrs

Nov 13, 2008

I ride Caltrain frquently, oft times my work takes me down the Peninsula. The Depot at 4th & King is just fine where it is. There are numerous ways to continue into Downtown without an extension. Underground facilities at 1st & Mission are surrepetious, not to mention seismically questionable in terms of safety, even with new construction and design techniques. MUNI could add a dedicated shuttle, honoring Caltrain tickets and not requiring additional rider-cost, between the two locations.. To make it greener, the shuttle could be serviced by electrified trolley-coaches.

 

Thomas Rohrs

Nov 13, 2008

I ride Caltrain frquently, oft times my work takes me down the Peninsula. The Depot at 4th & King is just fine where it is. There are numerous ways to continue into Downtown without an extension. Underground facilities at 1st & Mission are surrepetious, not to mention seismically questionable in terms of safety, even with new construction and design techniques. MUNI could add a dedicated shuttle, honoring Caltrain tickets and not requiring additional rider-cost, between the two locations.. To make it greener, the shuttle could be serviced by electrified trolley-coaches.

 

Jon

Nov 15, 2008

Certainly I'd rather the trains go into the heart of downtown but if it had to happen because of money issues I'd be okay with it. So long as the extension could be built at a later time. Its most important to see the HSR route built between LA and SF, than getting caught up one mile in SF and jeopardizing the whole system. It wont be easy building this HSR system even if it gets federal money, theyll no doubt be delays, construction problems, cost overruns, etc. But again I do want to see trains go into downtown eventually.

 

Krue

Nov 16, 2008

This whole high speed rail idea was a good idea when it CONNECTED to the center of SF and the BART system. Caltrain should connect to the SF downtown, and so should high speed rail. Maybe Kopp is just concerned that connecting Caltrain to downtown is going to expose his previous multi-billion-dollar BART-SFO extension as a waste of money....

 

Bob Shoring

Nov 20, 2008

If the Transbay Terminal is to be the terminal for Caltrain, High-Speed and possibly other intercity rail, it will need many more tracks than proposed. The current Caltrain depot has 12 tracks. It was built in 1975 for less than half the number of trains that now use the station. I would think Transbay will need at least a dozen tracks for Caltrain alone, plus at least a half dozen for high-speed rail. In planning for future expansion, allowing space for 30 tracks would not be unreasonable. Bob Shoring

 

stevenj

Dec 2, 2008

Quentin Kopp is entitled to his opinion but not having HSR terminate at the new Transbay terminal would be a huge mistake. Peninsula commuters on Caltrain can transfer to the Central subway or the N line to get to Market St. But the high speed system should make regional connections to BART at 1st and Mission (via underground passage ways) plus all the bus lines that serve the Transbay Terminal. To not take HSR to the Transbay terminal would be like not having extended BART into the airport. Let's do it right.

 

John

Apr 3, 2009

Bringing HSR into downtown would be ideal. But there is the option of having it connect to BART elsewhere, such as in Millbrae. Not perfect but gets you into the system better than having to hop MUNI to BART while carrying full suitcases...

 


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